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[Kal Argos]

Oomar Galor,

And I\'m using those sources too.  Excepted canon 1st, reference books second (hence the cutaway), and novels/comics last.  I have to average them all and in this thread give my scientific view on it:  How it might work via the science I know.  Thus the difficulties...

I apologize if I offended you, that wasn\'t my intent.

[Coolhand77]

The durability is one factor that could explain why they are not that common, or a common battle field weapon.  The Jedi make the most durable of sabres, but they are so few that only a Jedi/sith or friend of such would have one of the craftsman made ones.  In a situation where durability is not an issue (such as the light foil/rapier style weapon) there could be "cheap copies" like we have today in certain knife catalogs.  When dealing with a real sabre, these "knockoffs" will often break.  Also, though useful, they do not hold up to battlefield stress like the "real deal".  In addition, one of the primary advantages of a sabre in the hands of a Jedi is that it nullifys the advantages of common blaster weapons, such as range.  In the hands of a "null" or to use the Harry Potter term "Muggle", they are just very efficiant cutting impliments that are easily bested by someone out of reach armed with a blaster.  It also does nothing to protect the user from slug throwers, explosive devices, and area of effect weapons, which is why you will see soldiers using blasters and other ranged weapons, and much simpler, sturdier (compaired to the knockoffs anyway), and cheaper "Vibro" weapons when a blade is needed.  

Hell, simply put, it could come down to the good, old fasioned economics of the situation.  Think of it this way, outfit your clone army with 10,000 credit lightsabre based bayonets that can be shorted out by certain materials (even Obiwan made the mistake in a cut scene of jumping into a swamp with his sabre activated and shorting it out, requiring him to pull a half charge from Quigon\'s sabre after they met up again, which is why his sabre was not used for blocking the blaster bolts from the STAPs chasing him) OR a 100 credit vibro knife that doubles as a bayonette?

Ahem, sorry for the run on sentence

[Tek Eridani]

I find Kal\'s drawing a much more "elegant" exploration than the cutaway photo. The photo appears to indicate one could put in some shiney gravel in front of a fancy duracell & get a laser-like energy beam to politely go around sloppily braided wires & then get straigtened out by a shiney copper barrel (thank goodness for the tuning flange).  Speakin\' o shiney; I definitely like the shine on Kal\'s drool-eriffically rendered sabre hilt.  I\'m very impressed by the chrome-shine \'silver\' next to the satin-shine black-WOW.   :shock:  Also the horizontal sheen division on the front intuitively (to me) says "flat chrome surface lookin\' atcha".  Nice!

[Oomar Galor]

Oomar Galor,

And I\'m using those sources too.  Excepted canon 1st, reference books second (hence the cutaway), and novels/comics last.  I have to average them all and in this thread give my scientific view on it:  How it might work via the science I know.  Thus the difficulties...

I apologize if I offended you, that wasn\'t my intent.

Kal,

It is me who should apologize.  My intent was to defend my self from others, here, who were (in my opinion) thinking that I was pulling information out of the air, or at least non-SW sources.

I was giving my two cents about what I had seen from a SW source. Unfortunately this topic has gone from theory(es) about Science Fiction technology to real world tech.  Yes, some uber nerd from ILM threw together parts to make a representation of a lightsaber. Just like someone glued parts on a stock (decommisioned) Sterling and called it a blaster.

I saw something not right about the lightsaber and I had questions aboout it.  Again I am sorry. :-(  :-(  :-(

[Coolhand77]

My appologies if I am one of those people Oomar.  Sometimes I get carried away.  I was just trying to figure out a good, PLAUSIBLE solution to Void\'s "Only a Jedi can build one" comments.  
It also begs the question, "Why didn\'t the Jedi at least issue sabres to ARC troopers?"  
Simple, they weren\'t trained for it, they were too expensive and time consuming to make, they needed all the training and spare sabres back at the temple or to replace those damaged in battle, and each sabre is like a part of its owner in a way and would be retired upon its owner\'s death, if it were not lost in battle.  Okay, maybe not so simple.  Basically my point was, that just like not EVERYONE can cook, or do various mechanical processes, a sabre, to be of reliable, BATTLEFIELD quality would have to be hand assembled by a Jedi (fastest way) or someone with ALOT of training and tools/sensors to properly align the components and tune the crystals.  Yes a droid could do it, but not as well as a sentient with the right tools and skills, and the Jedi can do it better, faster and cheaper than either the droid or the normal sentient.
As for the crystal, I agree that the almost raw, faceted, "quartz resembling" crystal in the "prop" sabre cutaway can\'t act as a lens.  The only way that massive hunk of rock could be used in focusing and tuning a sabre is probably as PART of the tuning and focusing mechanism, as the componant that provides the VIBRATIONAL FREQUENCY to the other componants.  The only way (in my mind) that the cutaway could work is if the "wires" between the crystal assembly and the "copper tube" were actually carrying the frequency modulated energy to the emitter unit (the copper thingy at the top) and there was no "energy beam" pulsing down the center of the assembly from an unfocussed crystal prisim.  That would allow for the sabre to have basically 4 distinct componant assemblys allowing for the varaiaty of looks seen in the prequels.  

Power source: "D-cell" power supply (classic solid grip), or multiple "wafer" batteries (Qui\'gon\'s Sabre), or some other configuration (Dooku\'s sabre) which also contains the cooling system for the power pack (radiative, evidenced by fins on the classic sabre handles, space between the cells on Qui\'gon\'s, and vents on Dooku\'s)

Energy focussing/crystal vibrational dookicky: The device with the crystal in the middle, perhaps even with a rotational componant in the center, maybe inducing a gyroscopic effect in the handle, thereby adding to some of the "difficutly" in wielding it.  depending on the position in the handle, it could also change the handling characteristics of the sabre, making it that much more nessicary for the wielder to be the builder since he/she/it would be familiar with the exact handling charateristics of their own individual sabre.  Might even explain Han\'s slight hesitation when activating Luke\'s because of the sudden "kick" or "resistance" when it the assembly in the handle started rotating, thereby giving it that gyroscopic "kick".  In the years they were together he MUST have seen it used, but didn\'t realize that the "massless" blade had that gyroscopic "pull" too it.

Emitter: The copper dohicky at the top.  Again, depending on the design, and distance from the other assemblies, it might alter the handling of the individual sabre.  This could be mass, or some counter rotating gyroscopic assembly or some other technobabble reason.  This, however, is where the beam emits from, thereby allowing for all sorts of configurations since the powercell, crystal assembly, and emitter no longer need to be in a straight line.  It also allows for a variety of emitter styles from Anakins "slant top", to Obiwan/Luke\'s "Bell/dish" emitters. This leads me to the fourth componant that alot of people forget about when dealing with mechanical/electronic devices

"WIRING HARNESS":  It could be made of an organically based super conductor, or some sort of strange materials, but basically this would be the "wires" seen in the "prop" picture.  Anakin/Luke\'s sabre has the power supply and crystal vibrational dookicky directly connected, with a long run of wiring harness up to the final emitter unit, with a few other dookickies in between.  Perhaps the semi-canonical/apocraphal blade length adjustment is a function of the two crystals having a variable distance from each other and thereby the assembly needs room to expand and contract, so a flexible wiring harness would be needed instead of the static "bar buss" style connection.  This would allow for a great deal of the Canon and Apocraphal sabers to exist, from Yoda\'s "one hander" (two hands for him, one for a human: almost no length to the bus at all), to Anakin/Luke\'s "adjustable length", to Kal\'s "protected emitter deep in the handle with some of the stabilizing/focussing elements up in front (kinda an inverted, or inside out emitter, where a shorter one would have all those components directly behind the exposed main emitter?), and Dooku and Ventriss\'s bent handle sabres.  It would also justify different styles of fighting because some sabres, like Dookus, would be balanced more for Western Fencing, while the traditional balance would be more towards Eastern "Kendo" style sword play.

Note on the "gyroscopic effect": Yes I know that the assembly in the ANH sabre doesn\'t look like it should rotate...first of all the cutaway is probably showing the INSIDE of the total assembly of the crystal doohicky.  Second, it doesn\'t have to be a "mechanical" rotating device, it could be a "virtual/quantum" type rotation where the massive amounts of energy actually act as "mass" due to their high levels and the particles involved approaching the speed of light (you know, E=MC2...dammit, I gotta learn how to do supertext on this thing)

I know that some of you may disagree with me on this, and I accept that.  I am just trying to come up with a logical set of points that includes the most veiwpoints from Canon, apocraphal and EU sources.

Edit: and Kal, NICE work, in case I forgot to say so before.  I like your design features.

Question, whats up with the "blade breaker" hook on the end of Dooku\'s sabre?  Could it be that Mr. "Rich old man" got his hands on some Frik or Cortosis and literally build himself a grabber/breaker for disarming Jedi opponents?  Just a thought.

Edit: And my appologies for spelling and grammatical errors...I did the above at 4 AM after feeding the baby.

[Wodin Vothalen]

For the thought on issuing Light Sabers to some or any of the clone troopers.

Light Sabers are a symbol of a Jedi.  If any of the troopers had one, it would degrade that symbol to a symbol of the Republic.  Even if the elite troopers such as the ARC\'s had light sabers, they would cease to represent only the Jedi.

Another reason to not issue Light Sabers, is the nature of combat.  The movies did not do a good job of representing modern combat. (another discussion for a different post).  Troopers probably wouldn\'t be in close combat with the enemy where they would have the time to reach to their belt, pull out the saber, activate it and stab the enemy.  Easier to butt stroke someone with the rifle and put 2 into their head.

[Klick]

That, and for general purposes, a vibrobayonet would do the job without the blaster-magnet glow and hum of a lightsaber blade.

[Coolhand77]

Yah, sabres arn\'t exactly stealthy...should have remebered that one :oops:

[Kal Argos]

Coolhand77,  I\'ve also thought about some sort of cooling system for the lightsabre... but after a bit of looking at the movies I seen no real evidence for a designated radiant cooling system.  I thought for sure that this radiant cooling would not be placed where one would  hold it ... but in the movies the hilt is held everywhere... so I just think that the outer casing of the lightsabre is thin enough to heat exchange for the entire sabre.... but I will say that some design features look like fins for cooling.  A prime example is Qui-Gon\'s lighsabre scalloped power cells. But... they make up the entire handle.  So maybe lightsabres just don\'t get that hot, or its like my earlier thought.  Luke\'s grips at the bottom are just for grip, or maybe I misunderstood your point there.

I\'m still trying to figure out Dooku\'s sabre.  Its a mess.  A hook smack-dab in the blade... unless it moves when activated?  I\'ve no clue on that one... and its curved.   Oh well... such an odd sabre.

[Klick]

Or they can dump the excess heat into the blade itself. Some extra juice there would actually be useful.

[Millenniumfalsehood]

Just a comment regarding the EU "mass-less blade" idea: I don\'t believe the blade to be mass-less. If it were, Darth Vader\'s saber throw in RotJ would be different, in that the center of gravity would be in the center of the handgrip. As it is, the CoG is actually in the blade. In fact, I\'d go as far as to say that the blades have the same mass as, say, aluminum tubing. :wink: Seriously, the acrobatics that Jedi do with their sabers would be impossible without the blades having at least some mass to carry the inertia.

Robert Brown had an excellent page on how Lightsabres work.

[Coolhand77]

Yah, too bad he got his knickers twisted over the whole episode II extras thing, as well as some other issues.

Actually the virtual particle theory on the Bsquared site would explain why the center of gravity was in the blade and not the handle.  In theory, a sufficient amount of energy would be equal to a certain amount of mass

Einstien even did the math for us. E(Energy)=M(mass)x (C(speed of light) squared).   All you have to do is figure out how much mass you are simulating, and you can get a rough approximation of the energy limits of a light sabre.  it would be something like M=E/Csquared if I remeber my basic algebra correctly.

[LBraden]

sorry to resurrect this thread, but info that I recently came across seems to fit here more than anything.

http://johneaves.wordpress.com/2009/03/17/its-lightsaber-day/